Sinatra Park still getting used!
4/2/2010 Update:
Unhappy residents find way to play on Sinatra Field
Hundreds of Hoboken residents are still angry about this whole Sinatra Park Soccer Field conundrum. And despite the signs warning that the park is closed, and trespassing isn’t allowed – these two daring dudes found a way to play a little baseball yesterday. Right or wrong?
See more about the soccer field mess after the jump!
9/30/2009 Update:
Website changed
In what I can only assume is a response to yesterday’s Hoboken411 article, the website of the Hoboken Youth Soccer League has removed it’s “sincere thanks” to Dawn Zimmer and Leo Pellegrini. Apparently there’s more than one “Disgusted Soccer Mom” out there unhappy with this situation, and the attempts by some at City Hall to take political advantage of it.
The website has been changed to say:
SEE THE ORIGINAL ANGRY HOBOKEN MOM’S LETTER BELOW!
9/29/2009:
Oh boy, here’s a letter received today from a Hoboken411 reader unhappy about the Sinatra Park Soccer Field falling into the river, and how some politicians are trying to win political points from the situation without doing anything real to bring us new recreational facilities:
Disgusted
“Dear 411,
The collapse of “parts” of Sinatra Field has angered and alarmed many families in Hoboken and once again drawn attention to the serious lack of open space and recreational facilities in Hoboken.
A look at the Hoboken Youth Soccer League (which is run by much appreciated volunteers) website shows that games will be now be played in Weehawken. I’m glad that the kids can still play, however, are there no other facilities in Hoboken? What happened to the parks? Where are the playing fields? The website thanks “Mayor” Zimmer, (well not yet, but I digress) for helping to find a place outside Hoboken.
Gee, thanks to the Acting Mayor for another band-aid solution. Wasn’t she (and the Council) supposed to be monitoring the Field and taking action when other parts of the walkway were already collapsing? Are we supposed to be appreciative that because we now have so little space we have to go to another town for our kids to play? Will we have to pay Weehawken for the use of their fields?
Council President/Acting Mayor Zimmer touted a pro-parks platform, I just assumed it was Hoboken parks. Do voters forget that only 2 years ago then Councilperson Zimmer removed the word “maintenance” from the open space fund resolution? The implication is the funds can only go to new park space and not for repairing open space. So now the piers have to be rebuilt. Great job. What more can we look forward to?
Signed, Disgusted Soccer Mom“
Pellegrini promotes Zimmer
A full story on Zimmer’s choice for Human Services Director, Leo Pellegrini, is on the way (keep those tips coming!). He’s also a director of the Hoboken Youth Soccer League who joined with ex-Mayor David Roberts to whip the city into an “emergency” frenzy designed to replace the turf on the soccer field. Now Pellegrini appears to be using his multiple hats to spin this situation in Zimmer’s favor by applauding her on his Soccer League website. Pellegrini has been on the job (and the payroll) for weeks even though the City Council has yet to confirm him or any of Zimmer’s other proposed Directors.
Open Space Trust Fund Twist
As the writer above notes, the city won’t be able to use Open Space Trust Fund money to help pay for the yet-undetermined amount of money that will be needed to save the soccer field from continuing to slide into the Hudson River. The original Open Space Tax ordinance proposed by Mayor David Roberts did not include a clause allowing the money to be used for existing park maintenance. That was added by council members Chris Campos and Nino Giacchi before Zimmer was elected. They included it for just this kind of situation, but Zimmer pushed to have the wording removed. Following the change Zimmer proceeded to claim all credit for the Open Space Trust Fund. Now her efforts may come back to haunt her (and soccer players throughout the city) because this fund can’t be used to help fund repairs at Sinatra Field (and money ain’t exactly growing on trees these days).
What is this all going to cost?
I’m hearing it may take millions of dollars to completely re-build the nineteenth century stone retaining walls that hold the fill the waterfront field is built on. Should this money be spent on the river, or is it time to build more soccer fields (yes, plural) in another part of Hoboken? How long will Hoboken soccer players have to shlep to Weehawken? Share your views on the situation – and the reader mail above – below in the comments section.
ALSO RELATED: When will a Southwest Park be built?
Hoboken NJ
60 Responses to ** Sinatra Park still getting used! **
September 30th, 2009 |
Nice photos, NickAdams. Love the way the sunset brings out the “Walk-Way Closed” sign…
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September 30th, 2009 |
Disgusted Soccer Mom is right.
Zimmer should have held up the collapsed portion of the field on her back, like Atlas, allowing the kiddies to resume their games so as not to inconvenience Ms. Very Busy and Very Disgusted Soccer Mom and her Disgusted Friends.
Better yet, the kiddies should be allowed to play there in spite of the collapse and enjoy a nice game of aquatic mudslide should another piece of ground below them disappear into the Hudson.
But really, more and more shitty cookie-cutter condos spread through this town like a cancer gobbling up any viable open space and our public pool looks like as over-sized bathtub, just a bit bigger than the one in my mom’s Queens backyard… the wretched state of affairs has been a long time in the making, so Ms. Disgusted Soccer Mom: GET A GRIP.
But really, Disgusted Soccer Mom sounds more like an opponent’s political operative disguised as a disgusted soccer mom than a genuine disgusted soccer mom, but we are in that mean season and it will only get worse.
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September 30th, 2009 |
To give some perspective. Most piers along the Hudson are old- maybe a hundred years old some of them, and were made by driving mature tree trunks into the river in long parallel rows. South of the Ferry Terminal you used to be able to see lines of wooden poles just sticking up out of the water at low tide. Evenly spaced and packed tight together. Those poles used to have the diameter of telephone poles or greater, but they received no maintenance over the years and now they have rotted and been eaten away. All the piers you see around us are built on top of these old wooden pilings. Back in the day, building using wooden pilings was fine so long as the river remained too polluted for the teredo worm to live in it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teredo_worm
Teredo worms couldn’t live in the river for most of the 1800’s on through the late 20th century. The ancient wooden pilings would have gone on lasting for decades if the teredo hadn’t returned. But now the river is getting healthier and the worms are back. Millions have been spent on both sides of the river to pour concrete jackets around each and every one of the thousands of wood pilings under all the piers. As you can imagine, it is expensive time consuming difficult and dangerous. Divers have to actually go under the piers and work in the dark in that ridiculous Hudson River current. Again and again and again.
I’m not an expert on Hoboken’s infrastructure but I’m fairly certain this is the issue taking place all along our waterfront. The parking lot at Stevens, the corner with the Gazebo and now the corner of the soccer field. I’m sure Pier A park got concrete jacketing, 14th st pier too I imagine, but it looks like they didn’t do that on the soccer field. I do not know for sure but I am willing to bet that most of the soccer field is built above the tideline on the riverbank. Obviously the South East corner is on pilings. How far under the pilings go I have no idea, but I doubt more than 30 feet or so.
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September 30th, 2009 |
This type of repair is very costly. Most of the problem is not visible from the surface. Having some experience dealing with engineering estimates, I would feel that the repairs will cost in the $millions….2 to 4 million dollars being in the ballpark. Judy Tripodi, our de-facto BA has another budget problem. The new mayor will inherit this as part of the budget situation. The council has a lot of work ahead.
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September 30th, 2009 |
Maybe you can answer this engineering question: If the whole pier underpinning has a wood component, what good does repairing a broken off corner do? Isn’t that a band aid? Won’t the entirety of the pier eventually/incrementally need to be upgraded to something non-cellulose/non-organic? It seems inevitable the entire pier needs rebuilding at enormous expense and has unpredictable danger in the yet un-rebuilt portions. Or am I missing something?
In response to truth1 who said:
This type of repair is very costly. Most of the problem is not visible from the surface. Having some experience dealing with engineering estimates, I would feel that the repairs will cost in the $millions….2 to 4 million dollars being in the ballpark. Judy Tripodi, our de-facto BA has another budget problem. The new mayor will inherit this as part of the budget situation. The council has a lot of work ahead.
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October 1st, 2009 |
This kind of repair might be costly, but this kind of “repair” should have been dealt with before the first brick in the walkway was put in place. Plywood is probably right, the entire pier probably needs to be rebuilt and/or reinforced or all we are doing is a patch job. It isn’t going to cost a small fortune to fix this boondoggle, it is going to cost a large fortune. That is what happens when you do a half-a55ed job, it ends up costing you far more in the long run.
In response to truth1 who said:
This type of repair is very costly. Most of the problem is not visible from the surface. Having some experience dealing with engineering estimates, I would feel that the repairs will cost in the $millions….2 to 4 million dollars being in the ballpark. Judy Tripodi, our de-facto BA has another budget problem. The new mayor will inherit this as part of the budget situation. The council has a lot of work ahead.
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October 1st, 2009 |
Let’s hope that inevitable hurricane making a left turn into the Hudson River the pundits have been predicting for decades doesn’t hit before this gets straightened out. Parlez vous New Orleans? Venice at least has a plan.
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October 1st, 2009 |
Maybe this is just a sign that soccer should not be supported in this town.
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October 1st, 2009 |
Matt & Plywood – Pointing fingers will not solve this problem. Our leaders will have the full engineering report with the specifics and we all have elected them to make decisions such as this.
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October 1st, 2009 |
Didn’t mean to “point fingers”, sorry. Just after the truth, no agenda.
In response to realstuff who said:
Matt & Plywood – Pointing fingers will not solve this problem. Our leaders will have the full engineering report with the specifics and we all have elected them to make decisions such as this.
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October 1st, 2009 |
Plywood – yes, an investigation should get the facts (truth) and if anyone is found at fault, they should be held responsible and accountable. Of course, this should imparted to the public which is not usually the case.
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October 1st, 2009 |
“soccer fields (yes, plural)”
I know this was written as an update to the soccer field, but how about baseball fields- town has one little league field, or a football field that can be used for multiple sports. Any kid/adult can run around in silk underwear and play soccer in an open area. MLS v NFL: Bankrupt v Solvent.
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October 1st, 2009 |
I had mentioned this before, but this town should absolutely have an area with a concentration of fields (and our rec center – yes, I know that will never happen and even if it should is questionable) that can support the current childrens’ leagues as well as the future expected growth. There is no way we can continue to support these things on the few fields that we have. The JC border in the SW works – lots of less desireable land, near transportation, etc.
I don’t think now is the economic/political climate to do this, but I think it is undeniable that it is needed if Hoboken is to remain a viable option for raising children, if that is its goal.
In response to Grizzly who said:
“soccer fields (yes, plural)”
I know this was written as an update to the soccer field, but how about baseball fields- town has one little league field, or a football field that can be used for multiple sports. Any kid/adult can run around in silk underwear and play soccer in an open area. MLS v NFL: Bankrupt v Solvent.
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October 1st, 2009 |
So where do we differ?
In response to realstuff who said:
Plywood – yes, an investigation should get the facts (truth) and if anyone is found at fault, they should be held responsible and accountable. Of course, this should imparted to the public which is not usually the case.
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October 1st, 2009 |
“…Do voters forget that only 2 years ago then Councilperson Zimmer removed the word “maintenance” from the open space fund resolution? The implication is the funds can only go to new park space and not for repairing open space. So now the piers have to be rebuilt…”
“Disgusted Soccer Mom” is way off. Had the new open space fund covered maintenance the city would simply have moved any existing maintenance expenses from the regular budget to the new fund, allowing them a little more discretionary spending on the taxpayer’s dime. Guess how much of the fund would have been left for new open space? About $0.00. And how much would have been left for repairing the poorly constructed and unmaintained piers? Same old $0.00.
How about the city budgets for adequate maintenance of all city facilities?
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October 1st, 2009 |
Thank you KenOn10 – good to see someone has the decency to set the record straight.
It’s pretty ironic that people accusing certain officials of abusing the situation to score cheap political points are themselves obviously scoring cheap political points, under a cover of a “disgusted soccer mom”.
But yeah, sinking the piers during the first months in office – bad bad move for the evil acting mayor. She obviously did a bad rain dance or something. And sending kids to play to Weehawken is an obvious treason to boot. …Did anyone check if she’s secretly british or canadian?
In response to KenOn10 who said:
“…Do voters forget that only 2 years ago then Councilperson Zimmer removed the word “maintenance” from the open space fund resolution? The implication is the funds can only go to new park space and not for repairing open space. So now the piers have to be rebuilt…”
“Disgusted Soccer Mom” is way off. Had the new open space fund covered maintenance the city would simply have moved any existing maintenance expenses from the regular budget to the new fund, allowing them a little more discretionary spending on the taxpayer’s dime. Guess how much of the fund would have been left for new open space? About $0.00. And how much would have been left for repairing the poorly constructed and unmaintained piers? Same old $0.00.
How about the city budgets for adequate maintenance of all city facilities?
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October 1st, 2009 |
Nick, the first half of your statement is right, and I love your photos of the PATH.
In response to NickAdams who said:
This whole thread is strange….this park was built circa 1995, well before Roberts was Mayor or Zimmer even lived in Hoboken…btw, not one of you could say “nice photos by the way”…LOL (see post 16 and 17)
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April 2nd, 2010 |
The MLS isn’t bankrupt, it’s expanded the last 2 seasons and will again in 2011. They also have a new CBA in place that will keep costs manageable going forward, and given the increasing popularity of soccer in this country will probably get a much improved TV deal next time around.
Before you make stealth unrelated digs at something off topic maybe you should know the facts first. People like you make me really hope the NFL locks out next season so you realize other sports are better than that trash pigskin game.
In response to Grizzly who said:
“soccer fields (yes, plural)”
I know this was written as an update to the soccer field, but how about baseball fields- town has one little league field, or a football field that can be used for multiple sports. Any kid/adult can run around in silk underwear and play soccer in an open area. MLS v NFL: Bankrupt v Solvent.
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April 2nd, 2010 |
As a follow up to the real update here though. The cops seem to have given up enforcing it. Use of the pier isn’t going to accelerate it’s distruction any further really than it sitting unused. I think there would be plenty of warning signs if something were to go down that would give people on the turf plenty of time to escape in an emergency, so I say play on.
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April 2nd, 2010 |
“Before you make stealth unrelated digs at something off topic maybe you should know the facts first.”
Yeh, like at the NHL…
I kid, I kid.
In response to NJDevils1087 who said:
The MLS isn’t bankrupt, it’s expanded the last 2 seasons and will again in 2011. They also have a new CBA in place that will keep costs manageable going forward, and given the increasing popularity of soccer in this country will probably get a much improved TV deal next time around.
Before you make stealth unrelated digs at something off topic maybe you should know the facts first. People like you make me really hope the NFL locks out next season so you realize other sports are better than that trash pigskin game.
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