Hoboken St. Patty’s Retrospective
3/9/2011:
Some bullet-point tidbits regarding the 2011 Hoboken St. Patrick’s Parade as the hysteria winds down…
Can an annual parade be such a big deal?
Traditions, rituals, celebrations – all fine and dandy.
But why does the annual Hoboken St. Patrick’s Parade create so much drama? We have parades all year. Baby parades. Pet parades. Little League parades. Memorial Day Parades.
However, it’s clear what separates the SPD parade from the rest: alcohol.
The sheer volume of revelers (some who are disrespectful) simply overwhelms the community.
“It’s only one day”
Many visitors and residents enjoy the annual party. And since moving to Hoboken in the 90′s – have partaken many times myself. But as you gain experience, you tend to appreciate the finer things in life more. And being jammed like sardines in a loud crowded bar is something that loses it’s appeal eventually.
My guess is that they enjoy it because everyone else is doing it? They get to wear green? Better chance to score with an inebriated person?
Those that wish the annual party continue in Hoboken often use excuses – most often being “hey, it’s only one day!” But think of this – if you had to get painful tooth surgery once a year – you’d sing a different tune despite it being “only one day.”
You can party and drink with friends any time
Part of the “it’s only one day” theory that loses its strength is the fact that there are 364 other days of the year you can drink, gather with friends – and hey – even have a party yourself! Hoboken doesn’t shut down and invoke prohibition on those days. You’re free to do what you want.
I just don’t understand why people “look forward” to something they can do anytime!
Maybe if it was a tropical locale, or if a truly special and unique moment transpired – but I just don’t get the logic.
House parties are not regulated
Yankee Stadium serves alcohol and seats over 50,000 people. Giants Stadium seats over 80,000 fans. Yet because of the controlled nature of the environment (security, limited alcohol serving times, etc) – they can keep the % of rowdiness much lower than the city of Hoboken can. Part of that reason is (despite the “tailgating” that takes place before the game) – is because of the smaller area. You can fit more than 25 Giant Stadiums inside Hoboken.
The same number of partiers – spread out over a mile square – and without oversight or regulation (other than neighbors calling HPD) – things are bound to have a better chance of spiraling out of control.
As population grows – so should police & fire departments
Another aspect that adds to the challenge of a mile square drinking contest – is the fact that our city has grown tremendously. A 30% increase over the past 10 years.
More apartments, more people, more problems. While the HPD only issued about 300 summonses this year (as opposed to over 500 last year) – many officers who Hoboken411 spoke with – some with decades in the department – said this year was the most “violent” yet. Even the fire department had objects hurled at them. They were clearly outnumbered – and testament to the fact that our city is understaffed (at least for events like this).
Watch what the other hand is doing…
As Hoboken411 told you yesterday – the Mayor announced that the Hoboken St. Patrick’s Parade will take place on a Wednesday in 2012.
The buzz I’m hearing on the streets is that this “announcement” may have been made to earn points for her allies in the upcoming City Council election in May – and that no one should be surprised if they tout a brilliant “new plan” at the last minute to allow the parade to take place on a Saturday anyway. So keep your eyes on what the other hand is doing behind the scenes, and take all promises with a grain of salt until you see the outcome with your own eyes.
Revenue & Hate
Some people out there have the audacity to say that Hoboken411 hates this city. Far from the truth. If you read 411 on a daily basis (and for the past 5 years online) – you’ll see a wide range of topics. Business information, reviews, historical facts, gorgeous photos, helpful contributors, charitable causes, things for parents and families, various events throughout the year and much much more (besides the myriad of exclusives!) And I’m not even counting the thousands of interactions I’ve had with residents behind the scenes – just like I how helped one resident save his car from flooding the other day. I’m too busy being a positive asset to the Mile Square to have time to hate anything!
Because Hoboken411 told the truth about exactly what happened doesn’t imply a hatred of Hoboken. Those were just the stats – don’t shoot the statistician!
Lastly – one “bar owner” signed up to comment with an anonymous email account yesterday. I wanted him to represent himself and his particular business straight up – but he didn’t respond to my emails. He said:
“I hope everyone complaining is happy. This day change will force me to raise my prices across the board once the summer is over and I’m sure those same people will have something to say about that. St. Patty’s day revenue gets me through the extremely slow Hoboken summer when many residents leave town and it’s establishments behind. If any of you didn’t notice, we are in a heavy recession and I personally have seen business drop 45% over the last year. I hope everyone is happy that the city allowed such a small percentage of rowdy people to ruin the entire day for thousands of people and countless local establishments.
Many of these out of control drunks come to town wasted, get inebriated at local residential house parties, or travel with their alcohol. I didn’t have ONE SINGLE INCIDENT at my bar and know plenty others that did an equally fine job thanks to stellar in-house security, capacity control and denying entry to those intoxicated. Hats off to my fellow bar owners and my condolences to those that will be negatively affected by the day change. It seems like people care more about what happens to their bushes and hallways in 24 hours then the problem I am having paying my kids college tuition the entire year.
I know exactly what kind of response I will get making this post so start throwing your insults and opinions my way. I am ready and will surely find many of them either amusing or delusional.”
What would you do if you were in charge of this annual event?
Hoboken NJ
40 Responses to ** Hoboken St. Patty’s Retrospective **
March 9th, 2011 |
“I hope everyone complaining is happy. This day change will force me to raise my prices across the board once the summer is over”
Ooooooooooh, I’m soooo scared of your pricing threat. If you can’t operate a profitable business without the profits from a single day then you don’t deserve to be in business. Go ahead and raise your prices but remember you have to actually compete for business the other 364 days of the years with 100 other establishments.
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March 9th, 2011 |
Well said!
Seems that this bar owner thinks price gouging is the actual key to running a good business. Hopefully the person who buys your liquor license will do a better job.
In response to prag who said:
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March 9th, 2011 |
“It seems like people care more about what happens to their bushes and hallways in 24 hours then the problem I am having paying my kids college tuition the entire year.”
Umm, exactly. I am far more concerned with the quality of life in the town that I call home than I am with the price of a stranger’s kids’ college bills. Sorry man, if you can’t pay your bills because the mayor isn’t creating an opportunity to charge a $40 cover and $10 a beer, then is appears that you aren’t as savvy a business man as you would like to believe.
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March 9th, 2011 |
If most of the bar owners in town are like this guy, I feel less bad about the parade being moved than I did, and I didn’t think that possible. What an entitled, whiny tirade.
Every other business in the city and country is struggling with the same recession you are. If you are unable to profitably run a bar in Hoboken, there are literally hundreds of people looking to buy your liquor license.
And unless you are personally willing to clean up and repair the damage done to my property every year by this “one day a year,” then, yes, I do care more about the damage done in that one day than how an incompetent businessman puts his children through college.
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March 9th, 2011 |
Next year actual St. Patrick’s Day is on a Saturday, so I don’t expect anything to be that much different.
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March 9th, 2011 |
Everyone who supports Hoboken’s St Paddy’s Day madness has talked about how much money is made on this day yet its always in very vague terms like “tons of money will be lost if we cancel it”. Well, as a bar owner please define “tons of money” to everyone because we would all love to see what the massive economic impact of this day really is. But before you give us your bottom line number from selling drinks and charging exorbitant cover charges, I would like you to please take into the account the various other expenses the city pays for like extra security, extra police, extra ems, clean up crews, cost of damage repairs, etc. Also, i would like you to deduct the opportunity cost of the non-food & beverage businesses whose revenues on this day are significantly reduced or are zero because they have to close up shop altogether. Next, please tell us how much of your St Paddy’s Day profits go to the city to help offset these costs. Then, and only then, can we have a real discussion about this event that has gradually spiraled out of control.
The anonymous (self-centered) bar owner mentions how well behaved people were at his bar. That’s great. You are able to pay for extra security with your piles of money to keep people in line and like you said, you turn away the ones who are too drunk. Guess what doosh? Those idiots who are too drunk to enter your bar now start roaming the streets and they’re pissed off because you wouldnt let them in. You have the option of not making the drunken idiots your problem but then you piss them off and you make them our problem. So once they leave or are turned away from your bar they decide to throw bricks through our windows, piss on our buildings, harass residents who daringly walk on their own streets, throw garbage wherever they want, steal things, assault other people, and pass out in our lobbies. So tell us again….what’s in it for us residents? We dont make a dime, most of us are held hostage in our apartments or leave the town for the weekend, we get to clean up after all of the animals, we get to pay for damages done to our buildings, and then some who stay in town get to pay for security out of their own pockets just to keep their buildings safe. And if you’re as lucky as i was, you got to watch two husky men engage in what appeared to be their first same-sex kiss, in between bites of the sandwich they were selling. Sounds like an awesome deal for us! We should do this more often!
“It seems like people care more about what happens to their bushes and hallways in 24 hours then the problem I am having paying my kids college tuition the entire year.” Yes, because we do not profit from this day yet we get to pay for anything that happens to our bushes and hallways. So why is it ok to take money from our pockets in the middle of this recession when it could be going to our children’s education but when we try to take money out of yours it’s a crime?
Finally, if you havent noticed already, we are all in the same recession as you are buddy. Everyone’s businesses are affected by this downturn so why dont you put your little violin away and deal with it the best that you can…..just like the rest of us are. Go ahead with your silly threat to raise prices. Bottom line is, if people like your bar they’ll pay up for their drinks. But if not, dont let the door hit you in the ass. Simple as that. I hope you find that amusing cuz i’ll laugh you all the way out of town.
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March 9th, 2011 |
Well Done!
In response to Hoboken17 who said:
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March 9th, 2011 |
I’d like to see an investigation into taxes paid by bars on this day…simply because I’m sure that no tax is being paid to the city, county or state on the $40-60 cash cover charges.
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March 9th, 2011 |
I do. St. Patrick’s day is much more fun in the city, so that’s where I’ll probably be.
In response to homeworld who said:
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March 9th, 2011 |
411, you deserve a Pulitzer prize. If I had one, I’d give it to ya.
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March 9th, 2011 |
I’d just like to take a moment to thank all the uniformed men and women who were on duty on Saturday. A hear a lot of complaints and comments that they are just out to make money for and issue tickets, etc etc.
But really all the officers I encountered were talking with people, interacting, offering direction, and just generally in in good spirits. All the while still making their presents known, and reacting when needed.
I’m sure you think differently if you were on the receiving end of any of their tickets (I was not), but I didn’t find them aggressive or ‘high on power’ like some of the stories you hear, or that I’ve seen at similar events.
I’m sure late in the evening/early morning, their demeanor was slightly different as they became more taxed, but never-the-less I’d like to thank them for doing their best in a bad situation.
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March 9th, 2011 |
St Pats eh….never has a event been so divisive.
I was on the chat on the day (under the name Kerching!) and it seemed to me this year was a tad more violent than in the past , but here are my thoughts on any future St Pats.
It seems to me that the city is predominately set up to earn money out of this one , and that’s a fair call..I mean who doesn’t want to make money in an event in your town ?
In the same vein though the event should not cause as much debate and aggro as this one seems to create year on year and one things for sure drunks and families/residents don’t mix.
But how do you keep everyone happy…business and partyers and residents alike? if you can find the answer to that then you are at least 90 percent of the way there.
So here goes with my two cents and idea.
Every year regardless of if there is a parade or not there is going to be folks coming in with partying in mind and the resulting clamping down in closing down house parties isn’t going to help (although its correct) all it seems to do is increase the aggro factor of bods wandering around still looking for another party increasing the risk of trouble , indeed there were a few citations out there for folks drinking on there own property ‘ticket em let the courts sort it out’ , now you cant tell me you would be a tad ‘pissed’ by that.
So why not throw em a party?
Section off a portion of Sinatra drive where there is hardly any residential buildings have cops/security man both entrances north and south , allow em to bring booze in (cans only) have bands playing live on a stage with various local business’s allowed to set up stall , have a bundle of porta loo’s and make it a decent ‘safe’ party environment.
Have security/medical and a few cops policing the area to kill any flare up’s and monitor numbers in and out and have plenty of entertainment/food/beer on offer from local vendors and I reckon….just reckon…it might be a quiet day/night for the rest of us.
The local bars/business will still have the same amount of business outside of this area.
Now all this cost’s money , but to make money you have to spend it , so charge the vendors and maybe a small entrance fee , hell you wont need to ship in the areas EMS services for this one as its all contained you will pretty much recoup all this in spades and maybe make it a safer next year for all of us.
Sounds sensible eh?…..bet it will never happen though makes too much sense.
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March 9th, 2011 |
That about sums it up….
In response to pawzclawz who said:
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March 9th, 2011 |
By the way, that was to Hoboken17
In response to xxrjxx who said:
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March 9th, 2011 |
If the parade is to be moved to a Wednesday, just canel it all together. It is lame to hold an event that very few residents will have an opportunity to enjoy.
What are my recommendations to prevent all this madness? Do some freakin research you narrow minded wankers! There are plenty of communities out there that have huge events and have found a way to control the crowds. How about you take the next 11 months reaching out to them to find solutions instead of guessing.
If you have major problems with house parties why don’t to reach out to communites like Belmar who have enacted state approved “Animal House” ordinances. Rowdy drunks? Talk to the communities who host spring break. Etc. Etc. Etc.
The debate on this annual event has gotten old. The parade has gone on for 25 years. It started as a real family event. It has slowly regressed over the years into an annual eyesore.
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March 9th, 2011 |
Not a bad idea, but it unfortunately fails to address too many of the major problems inherent with the weekend:
1) The house parties are still the primary cause of much of the mayhem, and the party idea does nothing to address this. House parties will still happen, and they will still largely be out of control because…
2) It doesn’t deal with the fact that there are too few public servants to keep the peace in the town when you double the population for the day. The augmented police force may be enough to police the main party itself, but they will not be able to properly patrol the parade or the rest of the city with this party going on. There is no way to properly secure all the ways in and out of town to the party, and if you don’t, you’re just going to have drunks wandering around as usual.
3) The bars will still heavily promote the event, and no matter what the city does, people will just go to the bars as well, who will self-police, thus sending more drunks out into the city.
4) This incurs more costs, not less. In addition to the property damage we have in town now, we will also have to clean up the main party area itself.
In response to GloballyRelaxed who said:
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March 9th, 2011 |
Its interesting they interviewed the bar owner from Wilton House — St. Pattys Day is probably the only day anyone steps foot in there. Cut off that money flow and he’ll be out of business.
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March 9th, 2011 |
No one I know actually gives two sh**s about the parade itself. The parties can all be on Friday and Saturday with or without the Mayor’s consent. Hell, they can run from Wednesday to Sunday – pick a day!
Personally, I’d rather forget the parade altogether. Focus more on Dawn Zimmer’s hypocritical behavior and her vote-fraud in the 4th Ward!
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March 9th, 2011 |
Dear anonymous bar owner,
Frankly I don’t care what happens within the walls of your establishment. If you can keep your patrons under control, that’s great. What concerns me is what happens once those patrons leave your establishment and hit the streets, where they harass taxpaying homeowners and famlies, vomit and urinate wherever they feel like it, damage property, start fights and all of the other problems you read about here. By opening your bar at 9 AM you are contributing to this situation, and since the bar owners of Hoboken have not, to my knowledge, gotten together to try to figure out a way to keep these problems from happening once your customers leave your bar, then unfortunately you have to suffer the consequences. DId you not think the day would eventually come when the city would feel a need to crack down on this so-called celebration? Well, that time has come, now deal with it.
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March 9th, 2011 |
Brilliant retort!
Next step: Shame the selfish who had an out of control house party and disrespected their neighbors.
Yeah no damage in my building, but the hosts didn’t monitor their guests and the hallways was filled with bottles and cups.
this is what blogs are for. If there was an out of control party in your building, rental or condo we can start by making sure your “neighbors” don’t disrespect you again.
We can start by listing their names and addresses!
In response to Hoboken17 who said:
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