What is Hoboken luxury to you?

6/30/2010:

Hoboken resident Marc is a bit miffed about broken Toll Brothers promises and how PNC Bank at Maxwell Place has decided to use signage in the massive condo project.

How do you feel about his concerns?

PNC Bank thumbs nose at new neighbors

“PNC’s opening of a new branch office at Maxwell Place could have been a welcome addition to the community.

But their lack of class included two ugly signs that cover two store front windows entirely. Toll promised beautiful retail stores in the building with large open windows to see into the stores, creating activity and life at the ground level of the building. Not only do these signs and the total covering of these windows contradict that promise, they are also extremely ugly and certainly not appropriate to install such cheap vinyl signs, stuck to the outside surface of the glass, at what was supposed to be an ultra “luxury” condo building.

When talking to the PNC branch manager, he responded that PNC received approval from Toll to install the signs. No other PNC representative would return a call to discuss the matter. Well…. Shame on PNC for coming into a new location and thumbing its’ nose at its’ new neighbors. A big price for being so insensitive, because PNC will never see our money in their bank. But obviously, they don’t care and they can be placed on the list of other company’s, like BP, that just don’t care about the homes of its’ potential customers or our home environment.”

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35 Comments on "What is Hoboken luxury to you?"

wiskeytango1
Member
wiskeytango1

to me luxury to me is a sears appliance box duplex of course with a tax free abatement.
Its all over rover bend over in the clover…14k pr year moving to mongoiwi in asia. 👿

escaped68
Member

I would think that the bank would want as much clear glass as possible in case of a bank robbery. If the windows are covered a hold up could be in progress and no one would know because who would see the hold up.

details
Member
details

This is not a window display. It is a sign. There are retail signage rules and code for this building, per Hoboken’s zoning office. The City requires sign permits for all permanent signs on the retail stores. The code requires the location for signs and there is a maximum allowable square foot for the amount of signs for each retail space. PNC obtained sign permits for the two legal signs. These window signs were snuck in after all City inpsections were complete.

HobokenAteMyPaychek
Member
HobokenAteMyPaychek

If you are so disturbed by “signage” then why would you ever move into a Toll Brother’s building that had clearly stated plans for mixed retail space on the first floor? There are plenty of other buildings with zero retail space that you could have chosen. It really just sounds like you have remorse over your decision to move there and want to blame anyone, but yourself.

I agree with BRADYKP – talk to your neighbors (if you haven’t alienated yourself with that elitist attitude) and I’m sure PNC will accommodate you if enough people agree.
[quote comment=”194188″]This is not a window display. It is a sign. There are retail signage rules and code for this building, per Hoboken’s zoning office. The City requires sign permits for all permanent signs on the retail stores. The code requires the location for signs and there is a maximum allowable square foot for the amount of signs for each retail space. PNC obtained sign permits for the two legal signs. These window signs were snuck in after all City inpsections were complete.[/quote]

details
Member
details

Obviously, you didn’t read or comprehend comments # 16 & # 20, above, before taking the liberty of labeling me. With regards to questioning my decision to move to a Toll building, that decision was unfortunately made before Toll’s new reputation with their City Living division. With regards to accusing me of remorse and looking to blame anyone, again you just missed the point. There is no blame, just striving to handle one issue at a time.[quote comment=”194192″]If you are so disturbed by “signage” then why would you ever move into a Toll Brother’s building that had clearly stated plans for mixed retail space on the first floor? There are plenty of other buildings with zero retail space that you could have chosen. It really just sounds like you have remorse over your decision to move there and want to blame anyone, but yourself.I agree with BRADYKP – talk to your neighbors (if you haven’t alienated yourself with that elitist attitude) and I’m sure PNC will accommodate you if enough people agree.[/quote]

Journey
Member
Journey

permanent

These signs in the window might not fit the description of permanent, and are not affected by those codes.[quote comment=”194188″]This is not a window display. It is a sign. There are retail signage rules and code for this building, per Hoboken’s zoning office. The City requires sign permits for all permanent signs on the retail stores. The code requires the location for signs and there is a maximum allowable square foot for the amount of signs for each retail space. PNC obtained sign permits for the two legal signs. These window signs were snuck in after all City inpsections were complete.[/quote]

getz76
Member
getz76

I would call that a window display. In is displayed in the window. Window. Display.

If you do not believe me, just look up the definition of “SIGN” in the municipal code. Specifically, “A “sign” shall not include a sign located completely within an enclosed building, except for illuminated or animated signs within show windows.”.

This does not look illuminated or animated.

I get that you do not like it, but honestly, you have no control over the issue. If you need that kind of control to make you happy, buy a house out in the suburbs without an association. [quote comment=”194188″]This is not a window display. It is a sign. There are retail signage rules and code for this building, per Hoboken’s zoning office. The City requires sign permits for all permanent signs on the retail stores. The code requires the location for signs and there is a maximum allowable square foot for the amount of signs for each retail space. PNC obtained sign permits for the two legal signs. These window signs were snuck in after all City inpsections were complete.[/quote]

details
Member
details
I did check this out. The definition that you are referring to is for signage that is totally inside a store that can be seen from the outside. Such signs are excluded from the definition of a sign for the purposes of requiring a permit. I confirmed with the Zoning office and this is not a sign within the building nor is this a show window or a window display. Zoning considers this an exterior sign that has replaced the window. With regards to moving to the suburbs to not have an association, I can stay at Maxwell for that. Because, there is no real association. Toll controls the Board and all decisions and that will continue for the foreseeable future. You say that I have no control. That’s not totally true. The control that I do have is to make sure that the actions that they take are legal. [quote comment=”194189″]I would call that a window display. In is displayed in the window. Window. Display.If you do not believe me, just look up the definition of “SIGN” in the municipal code. Specifically, “A “sign” shall not include a sign located completely within an enclosed building, except for illuminated or animated signs within show windows.”.This does not look illuminated or animated. I get that you do not like it, but honestly, you have no control over the issue. If you need that kind of control to make you happy, buy a house out in the suburbs without an association. [/quote]
getz76
Member
getz76
Trust the code over the zoning office. The code is clear. The display is not illuminated or animated. Plus, the actual logo is relatively small. Unless they change the code, I cannot see PNC Bank being in the wrong. Toll Brothers controls the board because the units did not sell. I know Toll Brothers even controlled Tea Lofts a couple of years ago for the same reason (not sure now). With any new construction you are going to run in to that, unless you have a 100% subscription. You should have considered your need to control all these aesthetic aspects of your building with the purchase. Be happy there is at least some retail in the space. Looks better than empty space.[quote comment=”194197″]I did check this out. The definition that you are referring to is for signage that is totally inside a store that can be seen from the outside. Such signs are excluded from the definition of a sign for the purposes of requiring a permit. I confirmed with the Zoning office and this is not a sign within the building nor is this a show window or a window display. Zoning considers this an exterior sign that has replaced the window. With regards to moving to the suburbs to not have an association, I can stay at Maxwell for that. Because, there is no real association. Toll controls the Board and all decisions and that will continue for the foreseeable future. You say that I have no control.… Read more »
details
Member
details

Don’t they have to construct in accordance with their sealed plans filed with the building department? In accordance with the City of Hoboken zoning code for signage on retail spaces, the plans showed signs within the maximum allowable square footage. Also, it showed the City’s approved location for the retail signage. In addition, the plans showed design details for the storefronts. Also, their promises were not just words. They had a very detailed model of the building to, as you say, rope us in.
With regards to your analysis of Toll, I found that all you have to say is true. But, I found out too late.

getz76
Member
getz76
No. If you go through the city code, you will not find anything on window displays. Not all buildings are subject to the signage rules, either, if I recall correctly. Go back and read your offering document. Whatever is in their is what you signed on for. You will notice that all those brochures have caveats, usually something like “Artist Rendition, May Not Reflect Finished Development”. If the offering document says your unit will have a balcony and you do not get a balcony, then you can sue. I highly doubt the offering document says you will be surrounded by beautiful people and bright, boutiquey stores with lovely hostesses that play French club music at a moderate volume in the background and serve free organic tea. Now, they had to have plans approved and zoning approved, but those plans are structural and usually just denote the approximate square footage and location of the retail, nothing much more. And personally, I think the sign looks fine.[quote comment=”194155″]Don’t they have to construct in accordance with their sealed plans filed with the building department? In accordance with the City of Hoboken zoning code for signage on retail spaces, the plans showed signs within the maximum allowable square footage. Also, it showed the City’s approved location for the retail signage. In addition, the plans showed design details for the storefronts. Also, their promises were not just words. They had a very detailed model of the building to, as you say, rope us in. With… Read more »
bradykp
Member
bradykp

Toll brothers has a history of this. There are lots of problems with various builders in Hoboken.

i find it hard to believe that there are any sorts of zoning rules on the size of a sign in a window storefront. the size might apply to signs attached to the storefront (like the “Blockbuster” logo in block letters, etc) – but I don’t see how they can have rules on what can be places in a retailer’s window (other than something pornographic or obscene). could be wrong – but i just don’t see how they can say something like – you can only have 3’x3′ signs in a window…

also – plans are just plans. you’d have to see if they were actually breaking any codes or laws.[quote comment=”194155″]Don’t they have to construct in accordance with their sealed plans filed with the building department? In accordance with the City of Hoboken zoning code for signage on retail spaces, the plans showed signs within the maximum allowable square footage. Also, it showed the City’s approved location for the retail signage. In addition, the plans showed design details for the storefronts. Also, their promises were not just words. They had a very detailed model of the building to, as you say, rope us in.With regards to your analysis of Toll, I found that all you have to say is true. But, I found out too late.[/quote]

details
Member
details

Thanks Oceanbloo, for at least understanding the problem. But, it is difficult to be thankful that the issue isn’t worse. Because, the real issue is what can we expect next. This post was only directed to one issue, even though small as compared to other issues. But, as we strive to get control of an out-of-control developer, all issues, large and small, need to be brought to the forefront. …..and by the way, again, PNC does not intend for this sign to be temporary. It will only be temporary if someone has the guts to speak up.
And you are correct, Toll is not inexperienced at compromising original objectives. But, if they were really experienced they would be able to cover up better.

bradykp
Member
bradykp

you should have known going in that Toll doesn’t give a damn about community or neighbors. So PNC isn’t acting much differently than the company you already gae your business to.

If you want the sign down, gather signatures from everyone in the building and nearby buildings. If it’s just you and a few others – why should PNC listen? It doesn’t even look bad. Colors aren’t crazy. If there’s a blank wall behind it, how’s that much better? But – if you want it down, get more people to sign a petition or something and present it. You’d be surprised, but places like PNC do respond to things like that.[quote comment=”194126″]Thanks Oceanbloo, for at least understanding the problem. But, it is difficult to be thankful that the issue isn’t worse. Because, the real issue is what can we expect next. This post was only directed to one issue, even though small as compared to other issues. But, as we strive to get control of an out-of-control developer, all issues, large and small, need to be brought to the forefront. …..and by the way, again, PNC does not intend for this sign to be temporary. It will only be temporary if someone has the guts to speak up.And you are correct, Toll is not inexperienced at compromising original objectives. But, if they were really experienced they would be able to cover up better.[/quote]

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