Where’s the Property Re-valuation? When?
03
December
12/3/2009:
Can’t revolt against the Queen, can you?
What a difference a year makes. With all the big talk of substantial budget cuts, and property re-valuations seemingly going silent – the roar is just beginning to get started from residents who were fooled into thinking a “Reval” was a big priority for our current administration.
411 reader Jill presents this open letter to the Mayor and the residents.
Will Mayor Zimmer start the property revaluation process?
“Dear Hoboken 411,
I have one question that I’m hoping you and your readers can shed some light on or hopefully spotlight to get our elected officials to respond.
When is Mayor Zimmer starting the property revaluation process?
I, like many people, voted for Dawn because of persuasive statements she made publicly and put in her campaign material such as: “Zimmer is committed to making the tough budget decisions needed to bring overdue tax relief to Hoboken residents.” Thank you, I need tax relief!
As a condo owner with approximately 1500 square feet, I’m outraged that I pay more in property taxes than my neighbor who has 3000 square feet of brownstone, and yet I pay the same as our Mayor who has over 3500 square feet, more than double my space. This is not new information, we’ve all done the math and seen the vast inequity among property owners, but I am tired of hearing our politicians saying they sympathize with us when they really need to be taking action now.
We all know tax revaluations are lengthy processes, but instead of reminding the public how hard tax revals are and how long they take, our elected officials, specifically our Mayor, needs to address this issue now and make it a priority to implement the tax reval. It also needs to be pointed out that telling the public to appeal their assessments is not a substitute for doing the actual reval. It’s not sound fiscal judgement when our city government relies on being reactive rather than proactive. With the number of appeals growing quickly, it’s only going to get uglier for Hoboken’s budget if the Mayor doesn’t get our fiscal practices under control.
At a meet and greet for multiple candidates this past October, the attendees were informed that new tax maps are required for the reval and that the legislation for these tax maps was already initiated by another council person, so why hasn’t Mayor Zimmer attempted to initiate an official tax reval process since she took office four months ago? Thousands of her supporters are counting on Mayor Zimmer to follow through on her promise for a property tax revaluation which she included in her recent public questionnaire response: “I support following the law and fairly sharing the tax burden and will promptly take the legally mandated steps to put one into effect.”
So far, Mayor Zimmer has not been prompt on this issue, and when asked about the tax reval, her reply has been “it will take years.” That is not an adequate response.
We’re not asking her how long, we’re asking her when!!!
Mayor Zimmer needs to start the reval process today and she needs to give the public significant tax reval status reports on a regular basis. Anything less is unacceptable.
Thank you,
Jill
37 Responses to ** Where’s the Property Re-valuation? When? **
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December 3rd 2009 - 17:12:32 |
“Maybe the day a society contributes equally based on usage we will eliminate divisions amongst people.”
If that day should come, it will do exactly the opposite. Don’t have money for food? Starve! Don’t have money for school? Stay uneducated. Can’t pay for a simple appendectomy? Die! There will be two classes: haves and have nots.
“if you cannot afford to raise kids…do not have them”
Aren’t we beyond making the child pay for his parents poor judgment?
Public school offers kids a chance to work hard, get educated and better their lot in life. As the wealthiest nation in the world, we should be able to provide this opportunity to all kids regardless of their financial condition. Not to defend the less-than-stellar Hoboken school system but Whew3, public schools are part of what makes America great.
In response to whewwhewwhew who said:
Maybe the day a society contributes equally based on usage we will eliminate divisions amongst people.
200 Years ago you made Horse Shoes and someone else grew corn. You got back from others based on what you produced and supplied. We now have an entire society that wants to (and does)live off others.
(Now I will get the Goldman Sachs analogy from some dope)
Point is if you use more of anything whether it is Health Care, Schools, etc you should pay more…regardless of your financial situation. If you cannot afford to raise kids…do not have them. Funny how when people pay for something they covet it more. Imagine if people from the projects had to pay if their kids did not maintain a certain grade average. They might then take a greater interest in them.
Families also need to band together like they do in the Indian community and pool their resources and conserve to achieve a brighter tomorrow.
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December 3rd 2009 - 18:16:56 |
Kenon10 and whew,
I think that kids deserve a chance in life regardless of the choices their parents made. We, as a civilized society, should also provide for the disabled, those who cannot provide for themselves. But can someone please explain to me why do we have to provide free or low-cost housing, food stamps, Medicaid, even cheap car insurance to able-bodied adults who r simply “poor”??? Hey I would be poor too if I didn’t put myself through college and grad school and if I didn’t work every day!! I just don’t understand the entitlement system… Why, again, r people entitled to something they didn’t earn?? A college financial aid advisor actually told me that if I quit my job and had a baby I would qualify for aid that I don’t have to pay back!! Is that what we r encouraging now?? I know this discussion is not about that, but just food fir thought…
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December 3rd 2009 - 20:19:47 |
John – if 97% of the folks in town weren’t going to get a change in their tax bill post-reval, the folks in the old buildings wouldn’t be freaking out about the reval. We all know they will get massive tax hikes. Then again they voted for the spending so they deserve the taxes that goes along with it. It isn’t “a few” it is a ton of folks. Some folks will pay roughly the same but some folks face a double digit tax hike. I’d bet thousands of folks get that double digit tax hike (even if spending stays flat).
But you can’t just wave a wand and change what folks pay on their bills without some way of calculating it. It can’t be arbitrary, it can’t be up to the tax assessor’s discretion, there has to be a methodology that is used uniformly city wide. We don’t have that b/c there is no up to date maps, no uniform data, no system in place. Maybe if the folks running this town for the last 30 years hadn’t been sticking all the new condos w/ the tax hikes to pay for their spending and they had reassessed more recently than the 80s this wouldn’t take this long. But they did screw around so it is going to take a long time.
And maybe those of you upset about how long it takes ought to keep in mind exactly why it takes this long. Blame every single mayor and city councilperson since Reagan who opposed a reval, blame every voter who voted for those folks and blame the city workers who’s fat payroll is the reason why your taxes on your shiny post-Reagan condo are so high. This mess is going to take years to clean up so get used to it.
As for thinking outside of the box, I say lets just dissolve the city of Hoboken, merge w/ Weehawken and fire most of the city workers. We might need to keep some of the rank & file public safety workers & teachers post merger, but we don’t need the brass, city hall or the administrative staff over at the BOE. We don’t even need all the school buildings, the firehouses or the police department or city hall buildings (we need some, just not all). Weehawken may not be the best run town in the world, but at least they pay their workers less and don’t do stupid things like back money losing hospitals or build parks on piers built on 100 year old pilings. And they sure know how to negotiate w/ developers based on that deal they cut to get that fantastic park on the waterfront. Plus, there is no reason what so ever for a town the size of a postage stamp to even exist. All that redundancy b/c every 1 mile square piece of land has to have their own city government and spend all that money replicating the same work every other little itty bitty town does, it is all wasted money. Honestly, it almost makes me think that Jersey should force all smaller towns to merge into much larger units (maybe even just go to a county model). Even if the amount of corruption remained unchanged (in absolute $s), I bet our taxes would be far lower b/c half the folks on the city & BOE payroll wouldn’t at all be needed. There is your thinking outside the box, I can almost hear the screams of overpaid civil servants state wide if that ever got enacted.
In response to john14 who said:
Rather than deferring responsibility, I’d like to hear some out-of-the-box thinking. After all, isn’t that in the veins of these so-called reformers you elected?
Heck do the re-val now, then make an small adjustment when the new maps come out. 97% of Hoboken will be unaffected by the new maps.
Let’s not hold the entire process up for just a few.
But nah, let’s just point the finger elsewhere. Better get used to it, because you’re gonna see a lot of that over the next three years!! Hahaha!!
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December 3rd 2009 - 20:51:37 |
When done properly, a reval is terrific. Anyone who is against a proper reval in any muni is either scamming the system or an idiot. I would welcome a reval in Hoboken. I would probably bare the brunt of a higher percentage gain as a result — but it would make things more equitable overall — and int he big picture be better for the City. The problem with Hoboken is that there are too many cronies looking to scam with illegal apartments and fake paper-work (Hello Louis Picardo!).
Louis Picardo, our previous tax collector is a classic example of this.
Have you seen this:
http://issuu.com/castlepointwatcher/docs/518_adams_-_picardo
Most of the political people in town have favorable assessments… so what do you think they want?
—
I also have a side question. How come the Picardo post that is found here: http://hoboken411.com/archives/11294
can only be viewed when you are logged in? Google can’t index it if this is the case, so people searching can’t learn about this guy… what’s up with that? Thanks for any information on this.
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December 3rd 2009 - 20:55:41 |
CPW that issue will be solved eventually… working on it when I can.. please email me directly in the future with tech questions on the site.. thanks.
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December 3rd 2009 - 21:19:51 |
Thanks for the reply… I sent you an email AFTER I posted that. I wasn’t thinkin’.
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December 3rd 2009 - 22:09:47 |
Erm, I don’t like what you’re feeding me.
It’s not just poor people that are entitled. Look away from the hole in your arse, and you’ll realize that entitlement comes in all shapes, sizes and economic backgrounds.
Blech.
In response to Bob321 who said:
I think that kids deserve a chance in life regardless of the choices their parents made. We, as a civilized society, should also provide for the disabled, those who cannot provide for themselves. But can someone please explain to me why do we have to provide free or low-cost housing, food stamps, Medicaid, even cheap car insurance to able-bodied adults who r simply “poor”??? Hey I would be poor too if I didn’t put myself through college and grad school and if I didn’t work every day!! I just don’t understand the entitlement system… Why, again, r people entitled to something they didn’t earn?? A college financial aid advisor actually told me that if I quit my job and had a baby I would qualify for aid that I don’t have to pay back!! Is that what we r encouraging now?? I know this discussion is not about that, but just food fir thought…
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December 4th 2009 - 00:39:30 |
Mooshu,
Please elaborate re: entitlement system. And as a courtesy to others, no insults please we r all just expressing our opinions. I, for example, would honestly like to hear what u have to say and may not agree, but promise to be civil. U really discredit ur otherwise perfectly valid end of the spectrum by the way u address others.
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December 4th 2009 - 01:15:06 |
u r so edge
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December 4th 2009 - 10:03:10 |
I don’t know about the older kids from the “projects,” but there are some kids from the “projects” in my young kid’s class. I honestly don’t see much of a difference (overall) in the kids from the “projects” and those that aren’t. Those kids come to school, on time. They have parents who make sure they are settled in and tell them they love them when they leave. Their parents participate in whatever they are asked to participate.
The difference is that some of the non-project kids get to go to Europe for a vacation, and maybe the Met on the weekends, and see Disney on Ice a couple times a year. They get swimming lessons and soccer and art classes. And I guess over time maybe those extras do make a big difference, because at the end of high school there are definitely more non-project kids that go to college than project kids. (I’m sure parental history of going to college also makes a huge impact.) My point is that finances already play a big part in where some kids end up – it makes no sense to add another layer for people to pay.
Your proposal to make people pay more if they use public schools is laughable. There are plenty of places in this world, considered to have a higher standard of living than we do, that fund education all the way through college and beyond. Same goes for health care.
Your statement about “poor” people not taking an interest in kids bothers me. So, let’s say you work for Goldman and travel often, and leave before your kids wake up and come home after they have gone to bed. Your spouse works at a law firm and spends maybe an hour with the kids a day. How does that constitute any more “interest” in children than folks from the projects? Because they can say, “but my kids won’t have to worry about paying tuition at Princeton!” Or “but we take them to the beach house a couple of weeks a year!”
In response to whewwhewwhew who said:
Maybe the day a society contributes equally based on usage we will eliminate divisions amongst people.
200 Years ago you made Horse Shoes and someone else grew corn. You got back from others based on what you produced and supplied. We now have an entire society that wants to (and does)live off others.
(Now I will get the Goldman Sachs analogy from some dope)
Point is if you use more of anything whether it is Health Care, Schools, etc you should pay more…regardless of your financial situation. If you cannot afford to raise kids…do not have them. Funny how when people pay for something they covet it more. Imagine if people from the projects had to pay if their kids did not maintain a certain grade average. They might then take a greater interest in them.
Families also need to band together like they do in the Indian community and pool their resources and conserve to achieve a brighter tomorrow.
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December 4th 2009 - 10:34:28 |
This exchange is really this site at it’s best. While 3w’s exasperation with a perceived broken social contract is valid, oceanbloo’s altruism is refreshing. I believe a person’s income is in some measure a function of their beliefs, but income level really tells one almost nothing about a person. There are rich and poor saints and jerks. Money isn’t the point, but neither is being a doormat.
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December 4th 2009 - 16:11:07 |
Where will the parents who live in the HHA get the money to pay for school? All children are entitled to a free and appropriate education. The idea that poor children shouldn’t be educated is archaic and is reflective of the poverty stricken 3rd world countries. This is one of the reasons whe have Al Qaeda and the like. Those who have no opportunities have no hope.
Not everyone was born into this world fortunate enough to have ecomonic resources or in some cases, a loving family. It sounds as though you had all of the luxuuries afforded. Children come into this world based on parental desires or missteps-they did not ask to be here. The least any society could do is offer every child an opportunity. Your post comes off as insulting and ignorant.
In response to whewwhewwhew who said:
Maybe the day a society contributes equally based on usage we will eliminate divisions amongst people.
200 Years ago you made Horse Shoes and someone else grew corn. You got back from others based on what you produced and supplied. We now have an entire society that wants to (and does)live off others.
(Now I will get the Goldman Sachs analogy from some dope)
Point is if you use more of anything whether it is Health Care, Schools, etc you should pay more…regardless of your financial situation. If you cannot afford to raise kids…do not have them. Funny how when people pay for something they covet it more. Imagine if people from the projects had to pay if their kids did not maintain a certain grade average. They might then take a greater interest in them.
Families also need to band together like they do in the Indian community and pool their resources and conserve to achieve a brighter tomorrow.
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December 18th 2009 - 11:12:23 |
Don’t worry Jill, part of Hoboken Revolt’s mission:
“to establish a fair allocation of property taxes among all Hoboken property owners”
Looks like any day now, Revolt will be putting the heat on Zimmer to follow through on the tax reval, the one she promised to do.
Yeah, right.
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December 18th 2009 - 11:20:04 |
The re-eval process has to be started now. I hope that Judy T. has put money in the budget to start the tax map. Most experts in the field believe that it will take four years to complete the entire process. Let’s get going now! Judy has obtained estimates to start the process. When will the public be informed? Call her at city hall. She is the de-facto Business Administrator. Send her an email. A Citizen Against Mismanagement
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December 18th 2009 - 12:26:53 |
A reval will likely not happen for a long time. If one were done it would raise WAY too many questions about some of the “practices” that the assessor and Picardo had/have in place.
If you hang your hat on the “hope” peg of Judy — you’re dreaming. She is NOT here to help… not in the least.
The only people who can help us are ourselves.
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December 18th 2009 - 12:37:42 |
I think those who expected a prompt reval are going to be as disappointed as those who believed the new Mayor and council members who promised to cut taxes by 25% this year.
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December 18th 2009 - 12:56:20 |
If the council does their job and adopts an approval budget and submit this as part of the plan to the DCA’s Local Finance Board, then the city can be out of state supervision with the elected officials having the authority with the responsibility to do the job right. Our new governor has gone of the record saying the the state “should not be running cities” Then Judy and her state ‘cronies’ will be gone.
In response to CastlePointWatcher who said:
If you hang your hat on the “hope” peg of Judy — you’re dreaming. She is NOT here to help… not in the least.
The only people who can help us are ourselves.
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