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Bike Lanes: Waste of Paint?
19
October
10/19/2009:
Does it do any good?
There’s been quite a bit of debate about Hoboken’s Bike Lanes that have been painted on various streets around town – some folks like promoting a “greener” city with less car use, while others feel it’s a complete waste and poorly executed in town.
Lately, I’ve received several emails about the latest additions to the bike paths in Hoboken, painted on various narrow cross streets (such as 8th – as pictured above) with comments such as:
- “These markings are useless!”
- “No one will pay attention to them.”
- “People will still bike on any street they want to, it’s just a waste of paint.”
- “Just political.”
What do you think of the newest bike lane markings on the cross streets?
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October 20th 2009 - 12:44:22 |
@Furey
In a town with a budget so big that property taxes were increased recently, how do you propose to pay for the X new traffic cops and their electric cars?
I ride a bike to work everyday of the year except when there is fresh snow or ice, and I think that the bike lanes and cyclist road markings are a waste of paint.
In response to Furey who said:
I don’t think the problem really rests on City Hall, but on proper policing of our city and the motorists. I’d really like to see more enforcement of double parking and yellow lane parking with higher fines & more traffic cops hired to do this job (the fines to offset the cost of more cops, which is fiscally responsible!).
I’d love to see about “X” (# to be determined) new traffic cops hired, given 5 of those electric cars that Hoboken411 covered.
and create a off-hours patrol schedule for traffic enforcement (the current traffic cops are focused on their current “normal” schedule and our new cops are hired to now run operations from 6pm to 6am, making sure our overnight residents aren’t breaking laws like parking on corners and double parking)
Part of their job would be to enforce the use of the bike lanes, and during warm weather i’d like to see the patrolmen use bikes to patrol. They do it down the shore, why can’t they do it here?
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October 20th 2009 - 12:51:49 |
You shouldn’t attribute stupid ideas to someone who never mentioned such a thing. Bike lanes are one thing, and probably not the worst idea if only to get bikers to ride their bikes in the direction they are supposed to be riding in on one way roads (which most seem incapable of doing), but this hair brained scheme is another matter entirely. I bet Roberts at his worst couldn’t come up w/ an idea that would provide so little benefit to so few people while inconveniencing so many more people.
And yes, I see the bike lanes as more for the bikers than the cars. They are the ones that need to learn what stop signs & traffic lights are for (and one way signs). I don’t see too many cars blowing through red lights or going the wrong way down 7th street. So if they do stick to the lane, it sure will be nice knowing what side of the road they are on and that they all are going w/ the flow of traffic like they are supposed to. But somehow, I think they still will blow through those stop signs (and blame the driver of the car when they end up as someone’s hood ornament) until the cops start ticketing every bicyclist they see who pulls the “let’s not stop b/c I don’t want to lose my momentum BS stunt”.
In response to justaview who said:
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October 20th 2009 - 12:52:27 |
TJ, if you ride your bike to work everyday in the state of NJ I’m surprised you’re still alive. Drivers are less courteous to cyclists in this state than they are to pedestrians.
That said, the cycle lanes do little good in a city like Hoboken. Unless bikes are on separate right of way, they still fall victim to the whims and erratic behavior of drivers in this fine state.
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October 20th 2009 - 12:53:04 |
@JerseyCityFrankie
The last I heard pedestrians had the right of way.
In response to JerseyCityFrankie who said:
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October 20th 2009 - 13:02:20 |
Drivers less courteous? Go hang out by the PATH and watch who ignores who’s right of way. I guarantee you it isn’t the drivers. You will see 100 pedestrians ignore the lights/signals for every driver that rushes to get through that yellow light before it turns red. Take a walk down Washington during a weekend and see how many pedestrians cross through an intersection a car is trying to get through even though the car they are cutting off has a green light. Pedestrians in Hoboken are half suicidal. Only the cyclists that go the wrong way down 1 way streets are crazier.
And funny thing is, friends of mine who live in NYC and that I pick up at the PATH 100% agree with me. It almost makes me want to install a cow catcher on the front of an F-150 and drive through town in that.
In response to nojokin who said:
That said, the cycle lanes do little good in a city like Hoboken. Unless bikes are on separate right of way, they still fall victim to the whims and erratic behavior of drivers in this fine state.
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October 20th 2009 - 13:06:19 |
@nojokin
I work in NYC and ride in Hoboken and Manhattan. Thanks for your concern, but to survive, I use common sense, observe traffic laws, stay off sidewalks unless I’m on foot and pushing my bike, and don’t ride so close to parked cars that I can become a victim of a door or sideswiped by a passing motor vehicle.
My bike is equipped with bright flashing LED lights, and I ride without a helmet.
Maybe I have a charmed life or at least a guardian angel?
In response to nojokin who said:
That said, the cycle lanes do little good in a city like Hoboken. Unless bikes are on separate right of way, they still fall victim to the whims and erratic behavior of drivers in this fine state.
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October 20th 2009 - 13:12:24 |
@TJ
So you live in Hoboken and work in NYC? And you ride your bike to work everyday? Your story isn’t adding up.
Regardless, yes, if you ride frequently in NJ you are putting your life at risk. I would suggest taking up a safer hobby like skydiving.
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October 20th 2009 - 14:26:49 |
Matt, re: “Because most of the 50K residents drive”
I was speaking of your estimate of 300 parking spaces on the east side Washington avenue. A standard parking space is 19 feet long multiply by 300 and you get 5700 feet, over a mile. Even with the diagonal spots north of 8th street there isn’t room for more than perhaps 150 cars on the entire eastern side of Washington St because of the fire hydrants, bus stops and 15 blocks of intersections.
If anything a bike path physically separated from car traffic down the east side Washington St. could be just like 8th avenue south of 23rd street which by the way allowed weekday parking and they removed most of it for the bike lane.
FYI most people that are residents of Hoboken do not own cars and drive, there aren’t 50k cars or even 25k cars. There are perhaps 10k cars and thousands of those are in garages.
In response to matt_72 who said:
As for those dedicated lanes in NYC, I haven’t seen any where they took away parking. Most places I see lanes either never had parking, only had parking during non-peak times or the lane is next to the parked cars. Your idea, got to say it is even dumber than the movie theater w/ no parking.
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October 20th 2009 - 15:00:11 |
1 parking space is 1 parking space too many in my book. And your math is way off, I looked up Hoboken on satellite and counted 15 cars on the east side of Washington parking parallel just b/w 1st and 2nd. And when I looked at the block b/w 8th & 9th I counted over 30 cars (1st block where cars are parked at an angle). I won’t bother w/ the rest of the blocks but you get my point. I looked at 2 blocks and got to 45 cars, which tells me your 150 number is no where near high enough (and maybe my 300 spot figure is light).
But lets assume it is only 150 spots (even though that is far less than actually exist), you still make it so that there are 150 fewer spaces in town and you make it that much harder for everyone to park. Not only that, you make it that much harder to park in the specific part of town where short-term parking is the most scarce. Here is what you don’t seem to get, that shortage of parking doesn’t just impact the specific person that lost a spot, it also impacts everyone else that must look that much harder and longer for a spot, so basically anyone who parks near Washington on the street. Taking away all those spots when bikers have plenty of room to park on the road (it is plenty wide enough) is sheer stupidity. Next you will want to water the grass w/ Brawndo.
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October 20th 2009 - 15:37:11 |
Yip yap- nice link in post 15. Interesting what happens when something like accommodating bicycles is given more than a moment’s thought. However, like I was alluding to earlier, many people think street markings are stupid, reject physically separated bike lanes, yet bring no other ideas to the table. That’s why I was on about “the bikes aren’t going away”. If ALL of Washington Street was made diagonal parking on one side and a bike lane on the other for instance (since a bike lane doesn’t have to be that wide) there would be minimal net loss in total parking spots.
It’s easy to forget that there was a day where automobiles were a retrofit in Hoboken. This town was planned for horse and buggy. It’s time to look forward and have cars and bicycles co-exist. Bicycles are just going to become more popular over time, especially if every ride was a safety crap-shoot.
In response to YipYap who said:
I was speaking of your estimate of 300 parking spaces on the east side Washington avenue. A standard parking space is 19 feet long multiply by 300 and you get 5700 feet, over a mile. Even with the diagonal spots north of 8th street there isn’t room for more than perhaps 150 cars on the entire eastern side of Washington St because of the fire hydrants, bus stops and 15 blocks of intersections.
If anything a bike path physically separated from car traffic down the east side Washington St. could be just like 8th avenue south of 23rd street which by the way allowed weekday parking and they removed most of it for the bike lane.
FYI most people that are residents of Hoboken do not own cars and drive, there aren’t 50k cars or even 25k cars. There are perhaps 10k cars and thousands of those are in garages.
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October 20th 2009 - 16:02:38 |
Meant to end last sentence in post 30 with “especially if every bike ride WASN’T a crap-shoot”.
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October 20th 2009 - 16:22:16 |
Matt_72 – “1 parking space is 1 parking space too many in my book.” and “150 fewer spaces in town”
Don’t let anyone ever accuse you of being too flexible Matt.
If we could get 150 residents to commit to trading in their cars for bicycles then would you agree?
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October 20th 2009 - 16:31:04 |
if you can’t ride a bike in hoboken without a bike lane you shouldn’t be riding a bike at all.
In response to YipYap who said:
Don’t let anyone ever accuse you of being too flexible Matt.
If we could get 150 residents to commit to trading in their cars for bicycles then would you agree?
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October 20th 2009 - 16:42:19 |
Which is one of the reasons people don’t (especially children). Who is a bike lane hurting?
In response to justaview who said:
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October 20th 2009 - 17:00:24 |
A. It is more than 150 parking spots (I bet it is almost 150 if you count just the spots north of 8th st)
B. And all those metered spots are short term parking for the local businesses
C. I’d agree if you can get 150 or so residents who actually park on Washington St nightly to give up their cars AND every business on Washington St. who would be impacted agrees to give up a large percent of the short term parking their customers depend on.
D. Neither condition will ever happen in my lifetime, just like you won’t pop open Google maps and see for yourself that it is a heck of a lot more than 150 cars that would be removed to accomodate a few bikers that don’t know how to ride a bike on the right hand side of the road in a lane that is almost wide enough to accomodate a car passing a double parked car.
In response to YipYap who said:
Don’t let anyone ever accuse you of being too flexible Matt.
If we could get 150 residents to commit to trading in their cars for bicycles then would you agree?
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October 20th 2009 - 17:17:47 |
Not in the bike lane, they don’t. There used to be a sign that said bikes and roller bladders only.
In response to Thomas Jefferson who said:
The last I heard pedestrians had the right of way.
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October 20th 2009 - 17:18:23 |
Not me, but if you need a designated area maybe you should be walking! No?
In response to plywood who said:
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October 20th 2009 - 19:31:39 |
I can hold my own in traffic, and have for many years. I’m not talking about myself. I’m talking about the future and the trends in transportation. Riding a bike is just more dangerous than it needs to be and more a daily routine than many non-bicycle riders realize. My dad never owned a bike. I ride one every day. I think there should be bike lanes for reasons stated earlier. We will probably never see eye to eye on this so why don’t just let it go.
In response to justaview who said:
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October 25th 2009 - 11:12:01 |
The bike lanes are there to remind people that bikers have just as much of a right to be on the road as cars. that is all.
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